Seeking A Biblical Position

I came across this post today:

As a Baptist, I am driven to basing my positions on what I read in the Bible. It is an ideal my denomination doesn’t really hold to much anymore, but a part of the roots of my faith that have me still claiming the label these days. Many Christians in America these days don’t read their Bibles much, and they certainly don’t stop to look to Scripture to determine what they should think on an issue. It is far easier to let your favorite pastor tell you what you should believe… or worse, your political party. Because, as every Christian knows, Jesus was very clear about His political affiliation.

When it comes to the issue of guns, Americans have an even harder time being Biblical. We have a complicated relationship to these killing machines. We have amended our constitution to preserve the ability of normal citizens to remain armed so that we can fight of the Government should it ever get out of hand again.

Of course, the problem with that is that it just doesn’t work anymore. No citizen could ever maintain the kind of armory necessary to defeat the U.S. government, and only cult leading kooks ever even try to do so. When that happens, we all stand behind the Government when it swoops in and puts a stop to it. No one wants those kinds of kooks having an army!

So, we fudge on the second amendment. We say that it really applies to the right of a citizen to defend themselves without having to wait on trained authorities. Even then, we don’t really think that will ever apply. No one wants a return to the Wild West where everyone walks around with a gun. What most really want is the right to collect guns for entertainment. We love everything about guns. Shooting targets. Shooting animals. Playing simulations of killing people. It runs deep in our cultural roots.

The question is: What is the correct, Biblical, position on guns for a follower of Jesus? Would Jesus carry? As His people, should we?

Seriously. What do you see in Scripture about this? Be sure to use a good hermeneutic. Go.

This was my short answer (non-hermeneutic because of time) response:

The danger I see in reading your questions following your comments is that you make some assumptions or statements regarding the issue to which you yourself do not provide hermeneutic too. This then frames the question in such a way that what you are asking for is for someone to use scripture to defend or oppose your position.

In your statements you ascertain that guns are “killing machines” and that Americans have a hard time being biblical when addressing the “issue.”

If we are to indeed be scriptural and use good hermeneutic we must approach this without any framing or context. This is why after the recent events the church has taken such a hard-line stance on either side, because we are allowing our emotions to give us a biased framework or context in which we are going to the bible to try and then defend.

That being said, I will try and take a stab at answering the best I can what I see in scripture.

What is the correct, Biblical, position on guns for a follower of Jesus?

The short answer is there is no mention of guns in the bible. I know this sounds like I am being trite or trying to be funny, but plain and simply there is no mention of guns in the bible. So we must look at what weapons or other killing things were used.  Swords, spears, axes, slingshots, there might be more  in the way of weapons. Then there are things used to kill for food, protection or financial gain such as nets, clubs and much more.

Now in your statements you referred to guns as “killing machines” and indeed they can and often are used for such a thing, to kill, but we need to be careful if we are to jump to conclude that because they can kill that they are immoral. All throughout the Old Testament we see God sanction the use of violent and even deadly force in war, sometimes to defend against nations seeking to overthrow His people. At other times we see Him command His people to not only advance on another nation but to kill every living thing, people, livestock and on.  In the New Testament we see Jesus command the disciples to cast nets in order to catch fish, to kill these fish for food. Sometimes we see them catch so many fish there is no way they could eat them all. As fishermen it is only logical that they would sell what couldn’t be consumed. God commands the Jews to kill for sacrifice to atone for sins in the Old Testament. What we see is that killing and death entered His creation as a result of sin but that doesn’t mean that in every circumstance it is immoral.

Guns themselves are inanimate objects used for a wide Varity of things. Target shooting for fun, Hunting, war, and murder amongst other things.

Are we to assume that because the disciples cast nets and killed fish that they are immoral? Would this make anyone who used a fish net immoral? That when they used a knife to apply the final death blow or to gut a fish they were being immoral? Then why would we assume that a man who owns a gun and hunts and is a Christian and an American is any less biblical? The argument could be made that many hunt today for sport and not out of need for sustenance but the disciples fished for more than just food. They were fishermen and sold much of their catch for profit.

Am I to suppose that Daniel the young Christian man who loves the Lord with all his heart and just returned from Afghanistan is immoral because he used his gun in war to defend himself and fellow man? God sanctioned war in the Old Testament and Christ himself said he didn’t come to abolish the law but to fulfill the law. Yes I know that has a whole set of hermeneutical meanings that don’t directly pertain to war but Chris and God are one and God commanded His people to go to war many times for various differing reasons not just to defend themselves . The bible says He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

Specifically pertaining to the recent events of last week, I think we need to look deeper and realize the immorality wasn’t gun ownership, it was murder. And to take such a broad brush and say that all guns and or ownership is a morality question because one used guns to commit murder which is a very clear morality issue is quite irresponsible from a hermeneutic response.

To me this likens to the same argument as Alcohol. Scripture clearly tells us not to be drunk on wine as in Ephesians 5:18 yet it does not condemn wine itself. Jesus himself drank wine and miraculously made it!

 Does the possession of wine therefore make one immoral? Are we to assume as you did above that one ignores scripture if he has a relationship with these "drunkenness machines"?

The fact that guns can kill, does that make those who own them immoral or less Christ like? That is an assumption that in my opinion is as much ignoring scripture and just going off of what "ones favorite pastor or political parties says."

The possession of alcohol and consumption of alcohol are not frowned upon by scripture, rather the misuse of alcohol is.

Because the misuse leads to heinous sins we like to take it a step farther and call the whole thing immoral but it the end that is adding to scripture. 

What happened this past weekend was horrible, down right evil and immoral! Murder is immoral but to paint gun ownership and murder under the same brush and to say one who supports gun ownership is supportive in any way of murder is painting with far to wide a brush stroke.

What do you Think?

Aperture

Aperature from Jeff Dietz on Vimeo.

Aperture:
1: an opening or open space

2:
a: the opening in a photographic lens that admits the light
b: the diameter of the stop in an optical system that determines the diameter of the bundle of rays traversing the instrument
c: the diameter of the objective lens or mirror of a telescope

Aperture or knowledge of how to use aperture is one of those key elements in photography that can take ones shots up to a whole new level. Changing the aperture or f stop allows one to pick focal elements in a shot and make certain portions in focus while things closer or farther away in the depth of field remain out of focus, thus helping one frame in and draw ones attention to certain portions of a shot. To accomplish this with best results when taking pictures it helps to use fixed focus or prime lenses because they have a wider array of f  stops that give you more control than the typical lens that comes with most SLR cameras today.
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It is interesting to look back on one’s life and be able to see how God has orchestrated every little step, every turn, and every detail in order to place His plans into motion in your life. To mold us and shape us into the people He wants us to be so that we might carry out the purposes for which He has called us and anointed us to do. And while it is interesting to look back on one’s life we often wish we could look ahead and see a clear picture of what God wants and has in store for our lives. But that is simply not Gods plan for us. He sees the big picture while we only see in part. We must learn to trust and obey His promptings and callings as they come into focus so as to ever rely on His leadership and not become self sufficient apart from His grace and mercies displayed to us through the leadership of the Holy Spirit in our lives.
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Many of you have already heard that Kim, the boys and I will be moving to Katy to take a pastorate there in late December. IF you didn't know, well now you do!
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While I have had conversations with many of you about this new chapter we will begin in January I feel that there needs to be a little more detailed account of how we have ended up here. An account that might be to detailed for a passing conversation in the hall so I don’t bore those who are not interested and for those who are I can direct them here where they can read all about it.
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When Kim and I stepped back into ministry we stepped fully into it. We wanted to be all in or not at all! We wanted to partner with a body of believers who were passionately pursuing Christ and to make Him known. When we came to Carrollton as the Youth/Missions pastor we could have never imagined just how fun it would be. We committed to do youth ministry as a vocation and until God called us out. We never approached it as a stepping stone to get into other areas of ministry. It has been eight and a half years of watching God move in us and through us and watch him change and grow children into teens and then into adults that are fully and passionately pursuing Christ. It has been one of the most rewarding things I have ever done in my life. True discipleship! Not curriculum or strategy, just living out a relationship with Christ fully transparent before the teens so they could as Paul says: “follow my example as I followed Christ’s! Also during this time we have seen God take us all over the world and do miraculous things! We've seen people healed, raised from the dead, but most exciting unreached peoples, people who have never heard the gospel and who have no access to it come to salvation and begin to multiply and spread the gospel amongst their peers. God has done amazing things and we have been truly blessed.
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While we have been enjoying where God has had us about a year ago I began to feel like God was getting ready to do something big with us. At the time I didn't know what it was or that it was going to involve leaving Carrollton or youth ministry but I knew I needed to begin to press into Him and ready my heart for whatever it was. Then about six months ago I was looking for available youth ministry jobs for a friend of mine who was looking and while doing a search online I ran across a post looking for a campus pastor.

This Pastor needed to be fluent in both English and Spanish to come join with Grace Fellowship UMC and assist them in beginning work in a neighborhood north of the main campus with a population of about 56,000 people that are 44% Hispanic, 33% Anglo, 14% African American, and 6% Asian.  They wanted this person to be both an “architect and a builder” someone to both dream and implement work in this area of Katy that is highly neglected.  Someone who was familiar with the United Methodist system but didn't have to necessarily be ordained by the Methodist church.  All of these descriptions resonated with me. You see, I am not Methodist ordained however the last 14 years of ministry experience I have are in the United Methodist church yet I have never pursued ordination.  One of the blessings here at FUMC Carrollton has been that this church has always provided for our needs and blessed us tremendously. Indeed we are blessed more than any youth pastor I know!  The down side to that is that if we were to ever leave FUMC Carrollton we would never be able to find another church that could offer us what Carrollton was blessing us with as a youth pastor.
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With Kim’s health and our growing boys, our needs are naturally growing and we wouldn't be able to stay in our current situation much longer. If we were to eventually leave Carrollton for another ministry position it would need to be for a pastorate just for those reasons alone. The problem is that in the United Methodist system I would need to be ordained and while I do have my masters it would still take me close to a year to become ordained and even then the way the appointment system works in the United Methodist church I would be appointed to one of their smallest churches and have to work my way up. Which I don’t mind doing but once again Carrollton has blessed us so much that we already made more than we would starting out as a Methodist pastor. This would mean that we would be taking a big hit as a family if we were to do that. If we were to leave the United Methodist church we would be hard pressed to get a pastorate elsewhere having almost all of our ministry experience in the U. M. church. So to read that here was a Methodist Church that wanted to hire a pastor for their satellite campus but they didn't need to be ordained, well things started to come more and more into focus.  The other issue that I failed to mention above is that… well… I am not what one would consider a traditional Methodist guy. Neither is the church here in Carrollton for that matter. As I went on Grace Fellowship’s website I quickly realized that they weren't either. 
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Over our tenor in Carrollton God had allowed me to be a part of dreaming and implementing a mission vision here at FUMC. As part of that vision we felt the Lord wanted every member of FUMC to go on a mission trip over the course of ten years. Another component of that vision was that we felt led to adopt an “unreached people Group” and God has far exceeded what we could have ever imagined possible in both areas. As I became more aware of Grace and its vision It became clear to me that what God had done in me and FUMC here in Carrollton, HE was using as preparation for me in Katy.
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Grace Fellowship is a church that dares to dream big! It is Graces vision to “be a house of prayer for all nations.” They view this vision statement in three unique, yet fully integrated components – “House”, “Prayer”, and “Nations.”
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“House” – They desire to be a body that is seeking to make disciples who love God and neighbor through home groups and discipleship relationships. Ii is their desire to reach 50,000+ disciples in their life time. These are to be disciples who are mature believers who are being disciple and are actively discipling others. Not just people who attend church on Sunday. They want people to be well versed in the word so they alternate topical studies with expository studies through a book in the bible so that eventually the whole body will have gone through the whole bible.
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“Prayer” – They are seeking and experiencing the presence of God through worship, Word, and Prayer. They realize that many of their dreams and visions cannot be fulfilled with our the anointing of God and without prayer so they have dedicated space for what will soon be 24/7 prayer and praise. Indeed this is a praying church!
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“Nations” – They are seeking to make disciples of all nations through local and international outreach. They want every member to experience a short term mission experience. They also want to adopt 10 “unreached people groups” in their life time. They currently are ministering to 3 and this year will adopt a fourth.

So after much prayer, conversations with loved ones and mentors, interviews, applications and a trip to Katy to see the church and spend time with the pastors and people we felt certain that God was indeed calling us to Grace Fellowship!
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We grieve the family and friends we are leaving in Carrollton! Many will continue to be lifelong friends!  But we know God is calling us to Katy and to join with Grace Fellowship and that is what is coming into focus for us right now so we go whole heartily!